Volga Hydrofoils Messageboard

Hello all

Just let you know i have joined the bulletin board. I have a Volga 70 for over some years now. Bought the hull in 1996 in Kiev together with two bigger Voskhod hydrofoils for the company I work for. That is Fast Flying Ferries or Connexxion Water in Amsterdam Holland.We now have a fleet of 5 Voskhod´s which we operate on a daily bases from Amsterdam to IJmuiden. On a canal which is 25 Km in lenght. This is for daily commuter passengers.
I bought my Volga hull with shaft and V-drive only. We placed the engine, a Yanmar 6 LYA 310 Hp, here in Holland. Runs great, do a lot of water skiening and treyed para sailing but that did not work out to good. Boat has a problem of barnical grouth here in the waters of the IJsselmeer. So one's so often we polhis the foils for smooth operation. This is also a problem on the commercial Voskhods. The full out speed is 71 Km/H. at 3300 rpm on the engine and propellor shaft. Transmission is 1 - 1 and the prop is orginal. I like the set up from your site about the bow thruster. This is on the wish list, and this winter it will get done.
I have enclosed a orignal brocure of SUDO export from the USSR. This was the leaflet i found in the Ukraine, when we build the new Voskhods for the company.

Best regards

Peter Venema
Technical department
Connexxion Water

Hi Peter,
welcome to the forum.

The Volga is a great boat.
Your Volga looks great at the dock along the Voshods too.
i am looking for one at a reasonable price.
The new Khvilya is similar but not "the boat". Plastic... I do not like plastic. Any pricing idea for the Khvilya?
Alu is better.
There is a great book in German " Tragfluegelboote des Schertel-Sachsenberg-Systems" Elbe-Spree Verlag. I can only recommend it.

I cheked the Yanmar engine of your boat, it has a dry weight of ca. 600Kg. Isn't it a bit heavy? This means that you can take 6 instead of 8 persons aboard?
The engine specs are good, 315Hp and a lot of torque.500-700NM.
How is the consumption foilbourne?

A good idea would be an engine from a totaled BMW 3,0 tdi car, commonrail has 218-250hp and a lot of torque 400-600Nm depending on model. and weights under 300Kg.marinized.
BSFC is also lower than the old Yanmar, I think Yanmar is offering this engine too, but at a hefty price.
Best regards.
christian.

Hi Peter,

Welcome on board. We are happy for every new member joining us and new members that also are bringing in lots of experience are even better.

I am also surprized to read from you that you have inserted a 600 kg engine in your boat and you do with this still 71 km/h? This should mean in other words that we could be able to add any kind equipment without problem and have the option of adding atleast 200 kg extra weight.

I have presently the real V8 ZMZ/Gaz 53L but also have been researching for engines and the most reasonable engine to use seems to me a Volkswagen or Steyr marine diesel engine with 6 cyl, 170-230 HP at 4300 rpm with a ZF 63 IV gearbox. This configuration should be approx. 100 kg lighter than the original engine+gearbox+v-drive setup.

Weight of the Yanmar engine is actually 428 KG. Very little for an engine like that.\
http://www.yanmarmarine.com/theme/yanma ... Manual.pdf

christian tabakoff wrote:Hi Peter,
welcome to the forum.

The Volga is a great boat.
Your Volga looks great at the dock along the Voshods too.
i am looking for one at a reasonable price.
The new Khvilya is similar but not "the boat". Plastic... I do not like plastic. Any pricing idea for the Khvilya?
Alu is better.
There is a great book in German " Tragfluegelboote des Schertel-Sachsenberg-Systems" Elbe-Spree Verlag. I can only recommend it.

I cheked the Yanmar engine of your boat, it has a dry weight of ca. 600Kg. Isn't it a bit heavy? This means that you can take 6 instead of 8 persons aboard?
The engine specs are good, 315Hp and a lot of torque.500-700NM.
How is the consumption foilbourne?

A good idea would be an engine from a totaled BMW 3,0 tdi car, commonrail has 218-250hp and a lot of torque 400-600Nm depending on model. and weights under 300Kg.marinized.
BSFC is also lower than the old Yanmar, I think Yanmar is offering this engine too, but at a hefty price.
Best regards.
christian.

Hi Mark,
thank you for the correction.
I must have read something else or taken the weight of the full set: engine plus gear-box. there are a lot of different versions of the same engine on the site of Yanmar Marine.

Even so we are discussing the Volga Hydrofoil, which is a mix of a plane and a boat. It is beeing build at an aircraft factory with airplane alu and plane technique, so we should go in the same direction if not using an aircraft engine, at least a modern automotive Diesel or petrol engine.
The original Gaz 53 has a dry weight of ca 270Kg. so even more powerful the extra weight till 420Kg is too much for the boat. This brings trimm questions etc.
The BMW 4,4 v8 petrol engine is nearly the same ca. 245Kg, but has more HP and torque and a fuel injection which makes it a better choice...
If you limit the revs to 4000 -1 the life of the engine will increse up to 15-20000H. which is more then adequate. It is a good choice if you can take a used engine out of a car and marinize it, if not go to a shop of Yanmar or CMD, which joined forces with VW marine. Both supplyers are excellent.
What do you think?

As a crazy idea: there are blueprinted V8 petrol engines with a dry weight of ca 100KG and 280-350HP, the handicap is that they have a price tag of $ US 28K + at the manufacturers shop. The redline is ca 10 000RPm, so a new combination with gearbox and a new propeller would come under 150Kg. this will result in a reduction of load = fuel reduction, hence no need of a Diesel.
Any idea how much the origilnal combination of the Volga gearbox and GAZ 53 is in Kg? 330-350KG?
In such a boat you would be forced to take 3 extra ballet ladies on board just for keeping the original trimm values.
Christian

Hi

Regarding crazy idea: ZF Marine gearboxes are available up to 5500 rpm for petrol engines. Above this it is not suitable.
Such engines reach their max HP at high rev only. There were the torque is needed at low revs (engaging gearbox ahead) they
are miserable and maybe even stalling unless you put them on iddle speed between 2000 - 3000 rpm.
Such engine could be only feasable for a very light racing boat or an aeroplane.

br

My original GAZ 53 L engine has on its typeshield written 403 kg. Whether this weight is only of the engine or the engine with the
gearbox is not indicated. We have to through everything on a scale to sort this out.

Hello Georg,

405 KG is too much. Perhaps the marinized version has an extra heavy flywheel?
Normally the flywheel can be reduced by turning on a lathe to just ca.8-10,- Kg. We have done tyhis here in Sofia on GAZ 53 engines for trucks and jeeps.
The V8 runs steady at 450-600Rpm. and does not need this extra wieght. It is not a tractor! If you have not bolted on the engine in the boat you could reduce the weight of the flywheel, ballancing after this necessary too. but just the wheel.
I will look for the dynochart and post it. with a ZF gearbox this combination could be possible, as the blueprinted engine will be detuned by limiting the revs to say 5000-5500 and the hp rating will fall ca to 150-180HP more than enough for the Volga.
Any new pics of the "flying carpet"?
Christian

Hallo Georg of the "Flying Carpet"
here comes the dyno chart ... hay what is happening i can not paste a copy??
ok .
you can check this :
http://www.h1v8.com
Hartley enterprises. great stuff.
I would like such an engine H1V8 in my Lotus Super 7 or the small one H2 4 cylinder in the Smart car of my girlfriend.
It is a Porsche eater.

I'll give you my GAZ 53L and you will not need your engine hood anymore! The engine is so oversized, that you can impress any Porsche owner. Anyone who saw it up to now guessed, that it has about 600 - 700 HP.

Well Georg,
as I have written earlier the GAZ 53 engine can be stroked and bored up - with new liners and pistons to reach 5,5 - 6,0litres,
The heads allow you to use pistons with a diameter up to 110mm, the crankshaft of a PAZ bus has a stroke of 88 instead of 80,00MM.
You could use the pistons of the GM LS 3 engine- they have lower compression heigh and order a blueprinted crank to match the pistons and you will get ca 6-6,3 Lt. as the LS3 engine, but it will remain a GAZ engine, better get a crate LS Corvette engine, it is cheaper and they come bolt on with computer, wire harness, exhaust, cats and even with a throttle pedal just from GM crate engines, I gess the price was ca. 8 000$ ex warehouse US.

But the sound of the GAZ 53 engine is very nice, it blubbers as real old muscle car engine. Classic music for the ear.
Just for the sound of it , it is worth rebuilding it and putting it back in the boat. You can not compare it with the sound of a 6 Boxer Porsche. Only wityh the V8 from the 928.
Have you wired it already?
I could not be of help as I am not familiar with electric components and let a friend do the electrical jobs on my cars.

Dear Christian,

The engine is completely wired and functioning like a svirka (wissle). The sound (ti si prav) is pushka. Someone thinks there is a old rotary aeroplane engine flying above you...

You can see from the message of that time with Photos how the problem was solved.
Next time I will try to get a record of its rumble for everybody to load down.

Pozdravi
Joro

Merhaba Georg Asmabey,

this is good news.
I am waiting to hear the soud of the old GAZ V8, it remids me of the sound of the Mustang and Camaro SS of the 1970's besonders wenn der Schalldaemfer weggelassen wurde...
cok selyam

Hi Christian,

The original enginepower was 70 - 100 HP with a petrol engine.
I agree that a big gasguzler V8 petrol engine sounds nice.
With the Volga I was much more looking for economy cruise.
A very nice way the fly your boat as cheap as possible over a long riverdistance.
As you know there is a speedlimit in the design of the boat. Something like 32 kts.
The lower stabilizerfoil has to stay submerged for a normal ride.
Over 70 km/h the lower foil will start to "waterski"
Over 80 km/h there will be cavitationproblems I heared with the foils. (they will be damaged)

Ergo: I once knew a guy with a volga that had a 120 HP turbo diesel 4 cylinder volvo penta with heckdrive.
I was next to him so I can tell you on the GPS the boat was doing about 70 km/h

Wouldent a very dielsel efficient 120 HP be sufficient for the volga?
I read a lot of overkill here.

I also heared that an overkill engine can hurt the structural integrety of the boat with too much accelerationpower while getting foilborne.
Can cause the boat to leak etc etc.....

If you want cheap speed you can alway buy a 20 ft picton with a 250 HP 2 stroke outboardengine. Will go at least 60 70 kts.

Volga will never go that fast.
Regards, Mark

christian tabakoff wrote:Hi Mark,
thank you for the correction.
I must have read something else or taken the weight of the full set: engine plus gear-box. there are a lot of different versions of the same engine on the site of Yanmar Marine.

Even so we are discussing the Volga Hydrofoil, which is a mix of a plane and a boat. It is beeing build at an aircraft factory with airplane alu and plane technique, so we should go in the same direction if not using an aircraft engine, at least a modern automotive Diesel or petrol engine.
The original Gaz 53 has a dry weight of ca 270Kg. so even more powerful the extra weight till 420Kg is too much for the boat. This brings trimm questions etc.
The BMW 4,4 v8 petrol engine is nearly the same ca. 245Kg, but has more HP and torque and a fuel injection which makes it a better choice...
If you limit the revs to 4000 -1 the life of the engine will increse up to 15-20000H. which is more then adequate. It is a good choice if you can take a used engine out of a car and marinize it, if not go to a shop of Yanmar or CMD, which joined forces with VW marine. Both supplyers are excellent.
What do you think?

As a crazy idea: there are blueprinted V8 petrol engines with a dry weight of ca 100KG and 280-350HP, the handicap is that they have a price tag of $ US 28K + at the manufacturers shop. The redline is ca 10 000RPm, so a new combination with gearbox and a new propeller would come under 150Kg. this will result in a reduction of load = fuel reduction, hence no need of a Diesel.
Any idea how much the origilnal combination of the Volga gearbox and GAZ 53 is in Kg? 330-350KG?
In such a boat you would be forced to take 3 extra ballet ladies on board just for keeping the original trimm values.
Christian

Hi,

All this guesses about efficiency I have made brought me to this point.
A diesel or petrol engine normally have their most efficient points between 2000 and 3000 rpm.
Above 3000 rpm the engines use more fuel and are not as efficient.

Following should be checked:

1.) Use a 170 - 220 HP diesel engine at max 4000 -4300 rpm and then limit its revolutions
to only 3000 rpm in accordance with a ZF 63 IV, Ratio 1,560:1 (Propeller and shaft stay the same)
- If rev limited speed does not exceed 40 knots.
- engine uses the lower fuel consumption range and good below 3000 rpm.
- engine is never too loaded (forced) and should have longer maintenence intervals

2.) Another option would be to use same engine with 4000-4300 rpm and use ratio 1,992:1 (Propeller and shaft stay the same)
In this case the engine can rev up to its maximum and you can make use of the whole engine rpm range.
- Speed would not exceed 40 kn.
- engine again not loaded but will go up with rpm easily.

3.) Use an diesel with 120 HP at 3000 rpm only if you can find one with ratio 1,56:1

I wonder which one should be most reasonable among those, I should analize it together with the torque curves.